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• View topic - KAMIKAZE

KAMIKAZE

A place for Sladists to share their thoughts on Michael Slade and his work...

Postby EZ Rhino » Tue May 30, 2006 6:13 pm

I don't believe that criticism of any country's foreign policy means that their good deeds are overlooked. That's a logical fallacy.
I wish the media would report more on public service and charity news instead of gossip. It is of much greater value. - Jackie Chan
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Postby slyragz » Tue May 30, 2006 6:23 pm

So, if organized religion is really just a means to control the masses, then what is the war really over?

Does "radical" anything, Islam, redneck-ism, nazi-ism, communism (I know, ideologies not religion) fall under organized religion or organized anything?

Holy wars, crusades? Weren't they really fought over territory or the spoils, more than the belief in one God or another or way of worship? I mean, you can be religious about brushing your teeth.

I do get a little cheesed off here from time to time about "America the Bad" or the way we (and notice I did say WE) can unfailingly find all the things wrong with the U.S. What??? Other countries don't have crime, bad politics, enter wars, have horrid health care issues?

There is no series of events or changes we could implement that would make us well-liked. No matter what we did, fault would be found. We could send money and supplies and personnel to aid disaster relief and there would be something wrong with it. We could loan money and resources to other countries in need and something would be wrong with it. Pulling out of Iraq? What new kinds of problems would that lay at our door?

At this point, it just ain't gonna make difference. Our politicians just aren't what we think they should be, but they continue to get relected and when they don't, another takes his place and it's same-old, same-old. We have more than ample opportunity to vote, but we don't.

We do, however, enjoy a much better life than nearly everyone else in the entire world, and we still aren't happy. We enjoy our lives at the expense of the rest of the world.

Geez, I don't know what I'm saying exactly, except that the U.S. is not as bad as it's made out to be by those on other shores or here at home.

We do our best to deal with the legacy of past generations and the perceptions and realities of the rest of the world. We try to do the right thing, and sometimes I think we're the proof that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Show me someplace else that IS perfect, that has no economic problems, no health care issues, no unemployment woes, someplace that is loved by everyone or at least the majority of other countries, someplace that gives as much we do (and doesn't ask anything in return). Show me.

As for the war, it was inevitable. You know it, I know it. It was politics and economy. The WTC was an attack. Unprovoked? Depends on what you believe, I suppose. In my book, an attack is an attack. I don't think that anywhere in history it's going to say we bombed, blew up, or bitch-slapped them first, but I could be wrong.

I suppose you all just hit a nerve.
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Postby MarylandManson » Tue May 30, 2006 6:47 pm

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Postby WaywardSoul » Tue May 30, 2006 9:59 pm

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Postby EZ Rhino » Tue May 30, 2006 10:39 pm

I wish the media would report more on public service and charity news instead of gossip. It is of much greater value. - Jackie Chan
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Postby Slade » Tue May 30, 2006 11:10 pm

WS,

Slade: Harry Truman died in 1972, the same year the Watergate scandal first broke. Nixon's personal tapes weren't made public until after Truman's death, so there was no opportunity for Truman to learn from Nixon's mistakes.

My "mistake" was written tongue-in-cheek. Truman wrote his diary in 1945, contemporaneously with what was happening, but it didn't see the light of day until the late 1970s. My point is, Conspirators should always whisper-whisper, never scribble-scribble or let's record this to listen to later.

It's probably time to repeat an earlier statement of mine that must always be taken as a given when you read any post. I have the greatest respect for the warrior who puts his or her life on the line for the GOOD of his or her country. But that doesn't extend to leaders who shed the blood of other people's kids for the sake of back-room power politics, or the psycho who sneaks into the military because it's an opportunity to kill and collect ears.

Love of my country doesn't extend to the planners of the Dieppe Raid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieppe_Raid

Love of my country doesn't extend to those who sent us to be cannon fodder on the Gin Drinker's Line:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hong_Kong

And my respect for the Canadian soldier who puts his/her life on the line doesn't extend to these guys:

http://www.wsws.org/public_html/iwb7-28/canada.htm

Have I not made it clear in book after book after book, that I refuse to ooh and aah over the Emperor's New Clothes, and that I don't give a rat's ass if that gives my own country a black eye? Tough beans! Didn't some president (WS, there's that tongue again) once say, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen?"

So, WS and Slyragz, let me write you a mini story.

ASSUME that Iraq actually does have a weapon of mass destruction. Dr. Germ was able to bio-engineer a virus that if let loose - like ebola - will burn through an entire American city before it burns out. Shush, it's a secret, we don't want America to know, but two vials of that unknown weapon have been smuggled into two American cities and are ready to go.

ASSUME that Americans are getting ground down by the War in Iraq, and have come to realize they're not going to win. Feelers are out to find a way to end this thing with face, when Iraq issues a declaration for surrender.

Just one hitch.

America must give up it's belief in God.

Now we're told the American president speaks "to a higher Father." Is it possible for an American president to end a speech without saying "God bless America?" And every time you spend a buck on consumer goods, aren't you reminded "In God We Trust?"

ASSUMING what's above, and not knowing about the Germ, what reaction to the Iraq ultimatum do you think the American President will make?

Doesn't it all go back to being able to see it from the other guy's point of view?

To the Japanese, their Emperor was the Son of Heaven. So it's no small thing when Churchill advised: “It’s best to leave the Japanese some show of saving their military honor, and some assurance of their national existence. The emperor is something for which they’re ready to face certain death in very large numbers, and this might not be so important to us as it is to them.”

Truman's reaction: “After Pearl Harbor, I don’t think the Japs have military honor."

Stimson, his secretary of war, agreed with Churchill. Let Japan keep the emperor. “I heard from Byrnes,” he wrote later, “that they” – Truman and his secretary of state - “preferred not to put it in.”

The bombs dropped. And over 200,000 Japanese were incinerated by the secret "rain of ruin."

And what happened after? Truman let the Japanese keep their emperor. And the emperor is still on the throne today.

So, WS and Slyragz, I hope your umbrage at this Rat's Ass who wonders why Churchill's and Stimson's advice was dismissed, and whether there might be a parallel at work today, won't have you burning KAMIKAZE in the streets.

I apologize profusely for bruising your patriotic sensibilities, but I have a jaundiced eye for facts that don't make sense. As some president (there's that pesky tongue again) once cribbed...

I'M FROM MISSOURI, YOU'VE GOT TO SHOW ME.

Who Said It: Willard Duncan Vandiver

When: 1899

The Story behind It: In the late 1800s, Westerners liked to refer to Missouri as the "Show Me State." The implication was that Missourians were a little slow and not very bright. Missourians, however, turned the definition around and claimed that "Show me" meant that they were particularly alert and shrewd and not easily taken in.

Playfully submitted,

Your humble scribbler,

Slade
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Postby WaywardSoul » Tue May 30, 2006 11:18 pm

EZ, you're singing to the choir, my man.

The key word is multi-national. The ultra rich, from the most powerful nations, join forces to sell out the entire world.

Greed and avarice know no borders.

And don't get me started on ExxonMobil!

I'm paying $3.00 a gallon for regular unleaded, meanwhile they're posting record profits and giving they're outgoing CEO an almost half a billion dollar retirement package!
Meanwhile, Brazil has become almost totally fuel self-sufficient by producing their own ethanol.
Hell, my Scotch-Irish ancestors have been making that in backyard stills, for centuries.

I can't speak for Canada, but I know in this country, Exxon and anyone else related to the oil industry, will never allow the U.S. government to get serious about taking similar actions, until they've pumped the last drop of crude oil from the ground and made the last dollar possible.
"Remember, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over." - Frank Zappa
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Postby WaywardSoul » Tue May 30, 2006 11:39 pm

Slade, I have no problem with anyone's religion, but to borrow a phrase, "Your religious beliefs end, where my nose begins".

In other words, believe whatever you wish, worship your chosen deity in any manner you like, as long as your religious beliefs don't interfere with my life, or others who don't share your faith.

To my knowledge, followers of certain sects of Islam, are the only groups I am aware of who are commiting mass murder, in the name of their religion, here in the 21st century.

You see no problem with that?

This behavior was established decades ago. So, you can't blame it own Iraq, or U.S. troops in the Holy Land.

Do you really believe that if America pulled out of Iraq today, removed all traces of it's presence in the Middle-East, and never involved itself in the affairs of the region again, that terrorists attacks against strickly civilian targets, aimed at American and others from Western nations would ever stop?

I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that the Middle-East will be the location of the next major world conflict.
The lines between Us and Them will be distinctly religious.

President Bush is no Christian, by the way!
His very actions contradict that, on a daily basis.

Slade, it's hard for me to catch those subtle tongue-in-cheeks, unless you add the little smiley icons. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I thought I had caught that wonderful historical mind of yours in a rare slip.
Should have known it was too good to be true.

I won't take exceptional to your critcism of America, but I hope you take none that I am American and proud of it, warts and all.

I learned years ago that Americans spend most of their time complaining about America, while Canadians spend most of their time complaining about..................America(Tongue-in-cheek alert)!

It may just be me, but I've detected, if not an anti-American bias, at least a regular pattern of jabs, aimed at America in the Special X novels.
Does it piss me off sometimes?
Definetly!
But that's what I like about reading Slade, you're one of the few writers going today, who actually makes me feel something, when I read them.

All these long posts!!!
I really need to let the carpal-tunnel ease up.
I'll see you guys in a few days.

Yours truly, Captain America
"Remember, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over." - Frank Zappa
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Postby raasnio » Wed May 31, 2006 1:37 am

Slade isn't afraid to point out America's mistakes. This we know. Some of us will say we love this country (The U.S.A.) and no amount of finger pointing will make us want to move from here. Still, there really isn't a topic that I cannot brave. In fact, if you listen to George Carlin you can laugh/discuss anything. ;)

Still, no nation is perfect and this country is a perfect example. I see America as this land of people who scream 'do something!' and then after seeing what it costs they scream 'stop it!'. It is no secret that I am a registered Libertarian and I believe that the more power our government has, the more it can be misused and the greater the fallout. There needs to be a balance. The thing is that if you create a car that is way too powerful and hard to control, there is no way to guarantee that every person who drives it will do so competently. I won't even mention the back seat drivers.

In the end, we have continued to be a country that intervenes. When you enter someone else's backyard you are bound to step in some doggy doo. Is it ever worth it? In WWII I believe it was, but I don't see any wars past then that have proven to be as worthwhile, though Afghanistan can be argued due to 9/11. My point is that intervention is a threat to another country's autonomy, a large risk and a potential financial nightmare. We will never cease our overly interventionist policies as long as we continue to let the frat boys from the two major parties run things. Hell, when I think about it, those who run for public office don't need any qualifications of any consequence. It's funny, or not, that if you want to get hired as a network tech you need to have the qualifications to show that you will know what you are doing. Not so for public office. Scary isn't it?

My two pennies.
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Postby raasnio » Wed May 31, 2006 1:49 am

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Postby MarylandManson » Wed May 31, 2006 2:13 am

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Postby WaywardSoul » Wed May 31, 2006 2:17 am

"Remember, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over." - Frank Zappa
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Postby TBLightning492 » Wed May 31, 2006 4:37 am

Last month I helped my 16 year old sister study for a history exam that was quickly approaching. The subject of discussion was World War II, and having a soft spot in my heart for that particular area of history, I dove right in, and one night after work I sat down to read the chapters she was to be tested on. What I found in those pages was stunning. There was no mention of the horrors that Joseph Stalin unleashed on his own people during the years leading up to WWII - stories of starvation so severe that parents were found cannablizing their own children in the name of self preservation. Instead he was a simple notation in history, the leader of one of the allied countries. Despite this being an advanced history course, very little was mentioned about the reason for Hitler's advancing the German army towards Russia. "He wanted more power" was the only print given to the topic.

"[Hitler] believed that the Russians were sub-human (the 'untermenschen' ) and that they had no right to live where they did."

"Hitler wanted all the land in Eastern Europe to be given to Germans as they, Hitler believed, could farm it properly while East Europeans could not."

He simply wanted more power.

Slade brings up an interesting point when he mentions American Westerns. The genre does an amazing job of making things simple for the viewer. "This man did wrong, so this other man is going to do right."

That's why I love westerns like "High Plains Drifter". It fits the modern world as we know it. The man without a name strolls into town and accepts that he has a job to do...but not before he takes advantage of the town's hospitality. The town has it's secrets to be swept under the rug, showing that even the innocent are guilty, and in the end the stranger literally delivers Hell on Earth. Off into the sunset he disappears, with the bad guys vanquished and the town in shambles, leaving the survivors to piece together what's left of their lives. "Unforgiven" took this a step further. Is the hero really the hero, or is he just someone out for revenge? Little Bill Daggett is supposed to be the good guy, the man who simply wants order and peace in his town, but he dies a villain's death.

Even when he was being the ultimate villain, his own people viewed Stalin as the ultimate hero - their "Man of Steel". They looked up to him, much as the Japanese looked up to their emperor.

"...while the [German] army was fighting the Russian army, soldiers from the SS Einsatzgruppen murdered hundreds of thousands of civilians. This was all part of Hitler’s plan to get rid of 'sub-humans' from Europe. It is thought that as many as 20 million Russians died during the war. The slaughter was so great that Himmler believed that the policy of shooting civilians might disturbed those doing the killing. A direct result of this was the order to find a quicker way of murdering the people of Russia and the idea of death factories developed from this which lead to the Holocaust."

I bring all of this up for a reason: after she had taken the history test, I sat my sister down and quizzed her on the basics, just to see how well she had done with the material. Satisfied, I asked one more question: "What were the concentration camps"?

In all of her history courses, after all of the notes she had taken and the chapters she had read, not once had the issue of death camps come up. She didn't know that Stalin had refused to trade an important German officer for the release of his own son (who later died in a concentration camp), and she never learned just how close the Eiffel Tower was to being melted for shell casings. (I don't know why this upset me...weeks earlier they had reviewed Prohibition, not once discussing Al Capone or Elliot Ness).

Stalin was simply the leader of Russia - one of the good guys - who was looking for justice because of wrongs committed by the villain, Hitler.

William Munny, meet Little Bill Daggett.

Who's who depends on which side of the fence you're on, I suppose.
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Postby Slade » Wed May 31, 2006 6:14 am

TB,

Good to see you back. It's Stanley Cup time. And in case I haven't said it, your Special X image - the badge, the hat, the tunic, the boots - replaced Stonehenge as my desktop picture. It now puts me in the mood each day before I write.

WS,

I know what you're saying, and it doesn't ruffle me. My love affair with America goes back as far as I can remember. It's still a thrill - no suck-up intended - to cross the border, even though the country, like all countries in the world, thanks to franchising, isn't as exotic as it used to be. And why do I take those swipes? Because at the moment, you're at the heart of the BIG issues...so that's where the stories are. If it were a century back, my barbs would be at Britain.

You throw the stone at Goliath. That's the headline. If David gets hit by a stone, it's just an obituary.

Telling story:

The year was 1990 and the Wall had just come down. I found myself in a New York bar with four thriller writers: four Americans and one Canuck. One of the Americans was crying in his beer over the demise of the big bad Soviet Union. "What are we going to do as thriller writers with no malignant superpower out to destabilize the world!"

My comment?

"What do you mean we, Kemo Sabe?"

Slade
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Postby WaywardSoul » Wed May 31, 2006 2:40 pm

Slade: Taking swipes at America was what I should have said. And I understand perfectly the reasons for them, even before the explaination in your last post.

Plus, there is a bit of truth in those swipes.

But to a proud American like myself, they can have a cummulative effect, over time.
Keep in mind the sister being the town whore scenario I outlined a few posts back.

On the topic of headlines, the worst news about America, or anything else, makes the best headlines.
Good news rarely, if ever, gets the large font type.

I know it's been said before but I appreciate to no end the ability of the members here to voice all sides of a topic, without it degenerating into pissing match.
I'm a moderator at another site, and I'm constantly putting out fires over politics, religion, and even sports.
Thanks to all members here, for their honesty and civility.

TB: High Plains Drifter is my all-time favorite Western. From your synopsis, I believe you're actually missing a key element of that movie.

Watch again, closely.
In this case, The Man with No Name is actually a spirit back from the dead to take revenge on his killers and the townspeople who stood by and let him die.
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